{"id":3261,"date":"2025-05-21T14:31:24","date_gmt":"2025-05-21T18:31:24","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/manacsadesign.com\/press\/?p=3261"},"modified":"2025-05-30T01:47:00","modified_gmt":"2025-05-30T05:47:00","slug":"creativity-scott-barry-kaufman","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/manacsadesign.com\/press\/creativity-scott-barry-kaufman\/","title":{"rendered":"Creativity Is a Way of Life: An Interview with Scott Barry Kaufman"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"su-image-carousel  su-image-carousel-has-outline su-image-carousel-adaptive su-image-carousel-slides-style-minimal su-image-carousel-controls-style-dark su-image-carousel-align-center\" style=\"\" data-flickity-options='{\"groupCells\":true,\"cellSelector\":\".su-image-carousel-item\",\"adaptiveHeight\":true,\"cellAlign\":\"left\",\"prevNextButtons\":false,\"pageDots\":false,\"autoPlay\":false,\"imagesLoaded\":true,\"contain\":false,\"selectedAttraction\":0.025,\"friction\":0.28}' id=\"su_image_carousel_69d664bdc0971\"><div class=\"su-image-carousel-item\"><div class=\"su-image-carousel-item-content\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"1440\" height=\"834\" src=\"https:\/\/manacsadesign.com\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/cover-kaufman.jpg\" class=\"\" alt=\"The cover image for an article reads, &#039;Creativity Is a Way of Life: An Interview with Scott Barry Kaufman by Charlie Xavier&#039;\" srcset=\"https:\/\/manacsadesign.com\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/cover-kaufman.jpg 1440w, https:\/\/manacsadesign.com\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/cover-kaufman-300x174.jpg 300w, https:\/\/manacsadesign.com\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/cover-kaufman-1024x593.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/manacsadesign.com\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/cover-kaufman-768x445.jpg 768w, https:\/\/manacsadesign.com\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/cover-kaufman-1200x695.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1440px) 100vw, 1440px\" \/><\/div><\/div><\/div><script id=\"su_image_carousel_69d664bdc0971_script\">if(window.SUImageCarousel){setTimeout(function() {window.SUImageCarousel.initGallery(document.getElementById(\"su_image_carousel_69d664bdc0971\"))}, 0);}var su_image_carousel_69d664bdc0971_script=document.getElementById(\"su_image_carousel_69d664bdc0971_script\");if(su_image_carousel_69d664bdc0971_script){su_image_carousel_69d664bdc0971_script.parentNode.removeChild(su_image_carousel_69d664bdc0971_script);}<\/script>\n<div class=\"su-divider su-divider-style-default\" style=\"margin:0px 0;border-width:1px;border-color:#808080\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"contentSection\">\n<div class=\"contentRow flushMargins alignTop\">\n<div class=\"col02 marginKeeper\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"col04 bodyContent\">\n<h1 class=\"postHeader\">Creativity Is a Way of Life<\/h1>\n<p class=\"detailAuthor postSubhead\">An Interview with Scott Barry Kaufman by Charlie Xavier<\/p>\n<p class=\"postDate\">May 21, 2025<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-size: 110%;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.scottbarrykaufman.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Scott Barry Kaufman<\/a> is a cognitive scientist whose areas of research include intelligence, creativity, and the depths of human potential. Kaufman\u2019s work focuses on helping all kinds of people live creative, fulfilling, and self-actualized lives. In an interview originally published in <a href=\"\/elements-ed\/#EE02\"><em>ElementsEd<\/em> Issue 02<\/a>, Kaufman shared his perspective on intelligence and creativity\u2014and on what we can do to make <nobr>kids smarter.<\/nobr><\/p>\n<p>The following is an excerpt from the interview.<\/a><\/p>\n<div style=\"border-bottom: 1px solid #808080; margin-bottom: 2rem; margin-top: 1.5rem;\"><\/div>\n<p class=\"interview-attribution\">Charlie Xavier<\/p>\n<p><em>The question this issue of <span style=\"font-style: normal;\">ElementsEd<\/span> asks is whether we\u2019re up to the task of making kids smarter. We aim to think about what it means to make kids smarter and how we\u2019re doing that. What is intelligence? And in what ways<br \/>\nare we missing the mark? So my first question for you is: From your perspective, particularly given the neuroscience and research side of your work, are there particular traits or factors that make a person smart? And if so, what <nobr>are they?<\/nobr><\/em><\/p>\n<p class=\"interview-attribution\">Scott Barry Kaufman<\/p>\n<p>Well, if you start to define intelligence as anything that you are good at, then it starts to lose its meaning. But if you have too narrow a definition of intelligence, then you really miss out on a lot of intelligent people because you\u2019re blind to what it looks like. I tend to take a pretty common-sense approach to defining intelligence. A lot of it has to do with adaptation to your environment, being able to learn, being able to problem solve, reasoning, being able to learn from your mistakes, and also being curious. I include intellectual motivation and engagement as part of my definition of intelligence. But\u2026 I don\u2019t think we need to overvalue intelligence. Let\u2019s just say intelligence is one characteristic, one thing out of many things. Just like anything in life, everything\u2019s an interaction between nature and nurture. I just want to give all kids all the opportunities for intellectual enrichment that we can, without prejudging their ultimate <nobr>intellectual potential.<\/nobr><\/p>\n<p class=\"interview-attribution\">Charlie Xavier<\/p>\n<p><em>I love that answer. I think not being afraid of saying that things are hereditary or genetic is really important in this conversation. What can you say about whether or not these qualities are innate? Can we improve them? What\u2019s the <nobr>relationship there?<\/nobr><\/em><\/p>\n<p class=\"interview-attribution\">Scott Barry Kaufman<\/p>\n<p>One of Turkheimer\u2019s laws of behavioral genetics is that every psychological trait has a heritability coefficient. So partly nature, partly nurture. It\u2019s uncontroversial in realms such as introversion\/extroversion. Is anyone getting upset when you say introversion\/ extroversion is influenced to some degree by your genes? Everyone knows there are some people who are curmudgeons. It\u2019s not like anyone taught them\u2014they were born out of the gate with this temperament. And likewise, there are some of these kids aged two or three, they\u2019re soaking up knowledge like crazy. These gifted kids\u2014they exist. We don\u2019t need to make everyone else feel good about themselves by denying that they exist.<\/p>\n<p>But when it comes to how much we can grow and learn and change\u2026 I believe in the potential for growth for anyone if they\u2019re motivated. And genes influence your motivation for these things, too. Those who soak up knowledge like a sponge are going to be more motivated to keep soaking up knowledge like a sponge. Those who find it extremely difficult to remember anything or learn anything might not be as excited to keep doing that. I worked on this model with Angela Duckworth: high-level achievement is talent times effort. Talent is your rate of learning, rate of development, and effort is time on task, or motivation and engagement on the task. How far you go in life is a function of your rate of development multiplied by time on task and engagement on task. Kobe Bryant was incredibly engaged in basketball because [with] every investment he put into it, he soared. So let\u2019s make sure we\u2019re also allowing kids to invest in the things that are right <nobr>for them.<\/nobr><\/p>\n<p class=\"interview-attribution\">Charlie Xavier<\/p>\n<p><em>So how do we impact those traits? Or, to say that in another way, what are some practical things we can do to make <nobr>kids smarter?<\/nobr><\/em><\/p>\n<p class=\"interview-attribution\">Scott Barry Kaufman<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t know if we can actually make kids smarter. We can inspire them. We can make them fall in love with learning. For a teacher to come and say, \u201cwe\u2019re gonna make you intelligent\u201d\u2014no, it just doesn\u2019t work like that. The number one thing, I think, is to target a love of learning, the love of the process of mastery. Allowing kids to learn that struggle is an essential part of the learning process. We have this attitude these days with kids: the second they\u2019re uncomfortable, we placate and coddle them. That\u2019s not a way of making them <nobr>more intelligent.<\/nobr><\/p>\n<p>Even the most intellectually gifted humans in the world are going to face things that are going to challenge them. Einstein struggled with things and had to persevere. So, it really is having them fall in love with the whole process. And, showing the reward that comes from the mastery process\u2014maybe having some project-based reward, where they can demonstrate and have pride in the process they went through. Also, the teacher or the modeler can model enthusiasm. Inspiring mentors are really important; so is showing examples of people throughout history who have changed the world using some of their learning or knowledge. Another way is to help connect the learning material to something that gives them some meaning for what <nobr>they\u2019re doing.<\/nobr><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"linkPrompt nobr\"><a href=\"\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/Creativity-is-a-Way-of-Life-\u2014-An-Interview-with-Scott-Barry-Kaufman-by-Charlie-Xavier.pdf\">Read the Complete Interview <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/07\/arrow-blue-circle.svg\" class=\"linkArrow16\"><\/a><\/span><br \/>\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"linkPrompt nobr\"><a href=\"\/elements-ed\/#EE02\">Get <em>ElementsEd<\/em> Issue 02 <span style=\"opacity: 50%;\">Free<\/span> <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/07\/arrow-blue-circle.svg\" class=\"linkArrow16\"><\/a><\/span><\/p>\n<h3>Conversations<\/h3>\n<p class=\"podcastLinks\"><a href=\"https:\/\/scottbarrykaufman.com\/podcast\/the-neuroscience-and-neuroplasticity-of-intelligence-creativity-and-genius\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The Neuroscience (and Neuroplasticity) of Intelligence, Creativity, <nobr>and Genius <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/arrow-blue-circle-diagonal-out.svg\" alt=\"\" class=\"iconLinkExternal\"><\/nobr><\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"quoteAttribution\" style=\"line-height: 1.2; margin-bottom: 1.5em; margin-top: 0.25em;\">The Pscyhology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman \u2022 November 21, 2019<\/p>\n<p class=\"podcastLinks\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.scientificamerican.com\/blog\/beautiful-minds\/the-neuroscience-of-creativity-a-q-a-with-anna-abraham\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The Neuroscience of Creativity: A Q&#038;A with <nobr>Anna Abraham <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/arrow-blue-circle-diagonal-out.svg\" alt=\"\" class=\"iconLinkExternal\"><\/nobr><\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"quoteAttribution\" style=\"line-height: 1.2; margin-bottom: 1.5em; margin-top: 0.25em;\">Scientific American \u2022 January 4, 2019<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"col02 sidebarContent\">\n<div class=\"spacer40\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"spacer40\"><\/div>\n<p class=\"previewDesktop\"><a href=\"\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/Creativity-is-a-Way-of-Life-\u2014-An-Interview-with-Scott-Barry-Kaufman-by-Charlie-Xavier.pdf\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/excerpt-preview-kaufman.jpg\" alt=\"a preview showing a two-page spread of the ElementsEd interview with Scott Barry Kaufman on creativity and intelligence.\" width=\"545\" height=\"792\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-1747 previewImg\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"previewMobile\"><a href=\"\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/Creativity-is-a-Way-of-Life-\u2014-An-Interview-with-Scott-Barry-Kaufman-by-Charlie-Xavier.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/excerpt-preview-kaufman.jpg\" alt=\"a preview showing a two-page spread of the ElementsEd interview with Scott Barry Kaufman on creativity and intelligence.\" width=\"545\" height=\"792\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-1747 previewImg\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"\/press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/Creativity-is-a-Way-of-Life-\u2014-An-Interview-with-Scott-Barry-Kaufman-by-Charlie-Xavier.pdf\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"btnFullWidth\">Download Article <span style=\"opacity: 50%;\">Free<\/span><\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"spacer40\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"col02 marginKeeper\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Creativity Is a Way of Life An Interview with Scott Barry Kaufman by Charlie Xavier May 21, 2025 Scott Barry Kaufman is a cognitive scientist whose areas of research include intelligence, creativity, and the depths of human potential. Kaufman\u2019s work focuses on helping all kinds of people live creative, fulfilling, and self-actualized lives. 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